r/BestofRedditorUpdates: Asexuality Edition #2

Transcript Transcribed by Laura M.

Courtney: Hello everyone and welcome back. My name is Courtney, I am here as always with my spouse Royce, and together we are The Ace Couple and we are back for round two of r/BestofRedditorUpdates: Asexuality Edition.

Royce: So let’s start this off with a post that we covered in a previous episode.

Courtney: This is so exciting. This is a first for us. And actually this story is maybe one of my most memorable ones of all the stories we’ve covered from previous subreddits, so I can’t wait to find out what the update is.

Royce: The title is: AITA for not attending my daughter’s gender reveal for her lizard?

Courtney: If I recall, our verdict was yes.

Royce: This one was a resounding yes. I am not going to reread the entire original post. If you want to hear that and our commentary around it, I believe it was the first post we covered in episode 168, AITA Asexuality Edition #6. But the quick recap is that this post was made by the mother of the daughter who owned a lizard. Daughter is 23. The lizard is a blue-tongue skink, and the mom just could not understand why anyone would throw a gender reveal party for a lizard. And it became very apparent very quickly that said mother really, really wanted her daughter to have children and that this was a sore spot. Her daughter is asexual, has mentioned this, has tried to mention, has tried to explain this to her mother and her mother has not had any of it in the ways that we’re used to hearing, like the whole ‘that’s not a real thing’, ‘you haven’t met the right person yet’, sort of a thing. This BestofRedditorUpdates post does pull some relevant comments, which I will read off, and then it has an update actually from the next day. Where the daughter’s best friend finds the post and replies to it.

Courtney: Oh! Drums!

Royce: Okay, so one commenter responds to the original post, the mother’s post, and basically asks: why can’t you just be interested in the things your child likes and try to be happy with her? Essentially, in about a paragraph. And the mom responds: “I will be honest, I don’t have any particular feelings for the lizard. I think it looks like a snake, and that freaks me out.” [Courtney laughs] “And it is incapable of feeling emotions, so I don’t know why she feels a bond with it. She even named it Ellie, a human name.” [Courtney laughs] “So she can tell people, ‘I have to get home to Ellie.’ [Courtney chuckles] So she can act like she’s busy with a kid at home.” [Courtney chuckles] “Which I believe is an unhealthy way to cope with her social anxiety. She should learn to get comfortable with saying no instead of using a lizard as an excuse to neglect social obligations.” And I’m going to keep going through these. Part of the reason why I’m reading the comments first is because the best friend that responds mentions some of these without direct quotes.

Courtney: Ah, I see. I mean, this mom is clearly a clown. But I recall our commentary, or my thoughts on the matter at the very least, being something along the lines of, like, get over this lizard hurdle. Like your 20 something year old daughter wants to see you. She wants to hang out with you. She’s inviting you to a thing and creating a reason to assemble and celebrate. You’re way too hung up on this lizard thing.

Royce: The next comment of note says, “Okay, I was reading this post. I get it. Jokes about the lizard.” And then got to a point in the original post where the mother said, “She claims she he’s asexual.”

Courtney: Oh, yes, that’s right.

Royce: And they go on for a while, sort of breaking down how bad it is to say, one, she claims.

Courtney: Yeah.

Royce: Two, the mother does say, “I think she just hasn’t found the right man.”

Courtney: Yeah…

Royce: And sort of breaks this apart, brings up that the mother mentions at one point in a post that, like, how weird it is for the mother to have mentioned having gone through multiple bad miscarriages and still trying to pressure her daughter, who does not want kids, to have a kid.

Courtney: Yeah…

Royce: And the response to that, the mother’s response, says, with regards to asexuality, “I wouldn’t say I’ve invalidated it. She says she doesn’t experience sexual or romantic attraction, nor has a want for it, which is only because she hasn’t found the right person yet. It’s impossible for someone to not feel such a natural feeling.” [Courtney hums disapprovingly] “Everyone feels it. It is a normal chemical in our body.”

Courtney: Oh, my God!

Royce: [reading] “I’ve tried to explain this to her. For some reason, she fears physical interaction with men. I think her fears probably stem from not having a father because he left when she was three.”

Courtney: Wow.

Royce: [reading] “Yes, it was hard on me. There were many tears, and it’s–” this next part must be with regards to the miscarriages. She does not mention this, but there was a paragraph break. [reading] “Yes, it was hard on me. There are many tears, and it’s partially why her father left. But that’s what mothers do. She knows how important to me it is that I finally gave birth to a child that actually lived to grow up. And does hurt, she wouldn’t continue for me when I went through that pain.” [Courtney groans] “That’s why there’s been tension for her decision. I will admit I am unhappy with her decision, but I have been as supportive as I can and haven’t been mean about it.”

Courtney: Doubt. Highly, highly doubt that you have not been mean about it. Plus– So, all this like, speculating is so interesting, right? Because, oh, she claims she’s asexual, but I think she just hasn’t met the right person. Is she also just making up this entire fanfiction in her head about the anxiety and using the lizard as an excuse to get out of social obligations? Like, “Well, she says she needs to go home to this lizard, but really I think she just doesn’t socialize right.”

Royce: We’ll get to that.

Courtney: Oh, goody!

Royce: Keep that in mind. So the last comment of note. The comments themselves aren’t really that noteworthy. One of them just said, “You’re the asshole, that’s your grand-lizard.” Another one breaks down some of the mother’s inconsistencies and the– or contradictory thoughts or opinions in the original post. [Courtney hums in agreement] Part of that hinges on the mother’s original insistence that the whole problem here was that it was a gender reveal for a lizard. And that was the problem, as if there weren’t many layers of other things wrong with their relationship.

Courtney: Yeah.

Royce: The mother responds, “She kept labeling it was a gender reveal, though. She bought a cake that says it’s a girl and popped a pink sparkly glitter popper too, which I think is ridiculous.”

Courtney: It is ridiculous! And that’s why it’s great.

Royce: [reading] “The lizard can’t appreciate or love this, it can’t even feel emotions.”

Courtney: Oh my gosh, lighten up. Just– This is a woman who I don’t think has ever experienced whimsy, and honestly I pity her for that.

Royce: And the reason that this is on BestofRedditorUpdates now, the post the next day from the daughter’s best friend says, “You’re the asshole and I’m surprised you had the gall to post this knowing she frequents Reddit. This is the best friend that texted you. You blocked my number, not that it matters. You know it wasn’t about the reveal, it was an excuse to hold a party. We had fun without you. The lizard had an adorable tiny party hat. We had cake that said it’s a girl and we popped a glittery– a glittery sparkly party popper. It got all over the walls and ceiling and our friend John, and we started making jokes like, “Call the EMS for John,” and “They do say gender reveals are dangerous, who knew.” I’m sure she sent you the video, so you know what you missed out on. We’ve made fun of it for the most part and blasted the Last of Us music, since that’s where Ellie’s name comes from, not because she wanted an excuse for her social anxiety. She struggled with her identity for years and you were never supportive. When she was trying to figure out if she was a lesbian, you sat her down for 30 minutes and explained how it’s normal to get feelings confused but people weren’t meant to like the same gender, and it was probably just friendship feelings she was confusing.”

Courtney: Uh! Why am I not the least bit surprised? I love this, friend. Carry on.

Royce: [reading] “You are part of the reason she never explored her sexuality further with your, quote, ‘Sex is natural’ and, quote, ‘you can’t have a relationship without sex’ comments, knowing not only is she mildly autistic and already struggles to understand and comprehend her emotions, but she’s also a victim of a negative experience. You know she has a codependency issue and living by herself has been really difficult for her to overcome, and Ellie has helped immensely. She was upset you didn’t come when she wanted to see you because she adores you and you didn’t even call her for Thanksgiving.”

Courtney: Oh, oh… Ow.

Royce: So to go back to the ‘I don’t think you are socializing in the way that I think you are supposed to be socializing’ said to someone who is neurodivergent.

Courtney: Yep, why am I not surprised?

Royce: So that was a post where there is no ambiguity on the verdict.

Courtney: No.

Royce: The ento– The entire comment section was, “You are the asshole,” which sometimes we wonder when someone is so obviously wrong, why do they bother posting at all? But the daughter’s best friend here says, “You know she reads Reddit.”

Courtney: Yeah.

Royce: So that might have just been a way to get her attention.

Courtney: Yeah. Which is icky. It’s very icky. It’s icky gross. I don’t like it. But listen, like this is also something where– This one was maybe a little overt than a couple of the other– the posts we’ve made, but there are little comments that people will make concerning asexuality that they will deny and they’ll claim like, “This isn’t me being acephobic, this isn’t me not being supportive.” And this one was a little bit overt with the “I just think she hasn’t found the right guy.” But even if it just stopped at, like, she claims she’s asexual, if it just went on from there and didn’t even elaborate, like, “Oh, but I actually think XYZ,” that’s the kind of red flag where I read that and I’m like, oh, you’re incredibly acephobic, actually. You just aren’t telling us the rest.

Courtney: You are self-censoring yourself a little bit to make yourself look nicer, but you still can’t help yourself but get a little dig in there. And some people will do that to a lesser enough extent that there might be a bit of plausible deniability, but anytime you do see things like that “She claims she’s asexual,” that’s already casting doubt on something. So if that’s what they’re saying out loud, you know it’s so much worse, actually. And we’re getting that confirmation from the friend of all these other terrible things that she said, that sex is natural, you can’t have a relationship without sex. This mother is saying that to her child and then coming online and being like, “I’m as supportive as I can be.” Bullshit! You’re the asshole, this friend is a hero. We have pictures of Ellie, the friend paid the lizard tax. So go see Ellie, this precious good girl who we love so much and deserved every second of her gender reveal party.

Royce: I always get a little surprised when I see a picture or actually see a blue-tongued skink in person just because of how big and stocky they are. Because I had a skink for quite a long time as a kid, but it was– I think my mom picked him up at a garage sale.

Courtney: What?

Royce: Like someone had just caught a skink around their house.

Courtney: Wow.

Royce: Like it was a great plains skink, just a skink that is in the area, and was just kind of in a glass terrarium with not a lot in it. So picked him up to bring him somewhere where someone could actually take care of him, and I had him for a long time.

Courtney: So listen.

Royce: But he was much smaller.

Courtney: Your mom is such a legendary garage saler. I think 90% of your childhood stories started with, “My mom picked up X, Y, and Z from a garage sale.” But I gotta admit, I think that’s the first time you’ve told me that the skink came from a garage sale. I should not be surprised by this point. But I do love a good blue tongue skink. We had a blue tongue skink, at the zoo back during my zookeeper days. He was cool.

Courtney: I feel so sad for this woman’s daughter because she clearly wants a relationship with her mother despite her mother being terrible. But I’m glad to see that she has friends who come to this party and have a good time and are there to support her. And that she has Ellie because she deserves it. And also kudos to her for creating the only gender reveal party that I will defend with my life.

Courtney: Alright, moving on to our next story. This one originally came from OffMyChest, entitled: I’m Telling My Husband Tonight I Want a Divorce. [reading] “We’ve been together for 13 years, no kids. I can’t keep going like this anymore. I care about him a lot. I love him as a good friend, a brother. I hate having to break his heart. But I’m done settling for less. I’m done having to live with a man who doesn’t do his share of household duties. A couch potato who never wants to do anything. A man who needs to be escorted everywhere, even for buying groceries. A relationship without attraction, as he’s asexual. A relationship where I’m forced to suppress my sexuality.”

Courtney: [reading] “A relationship where I don’t get backup in my attempts to get healthier and fitter. A relationship where I don’t get backup in my attempts to get healthier and fitter. A relationship where my attempts to get healthier and fitter are sabotaged. A relationship where I feel like I’m a mother and he’s a child. A relationship where I long for the moments he leaves the house. Or I can go anywhere for a weekend. I’m turning bitter, old, and grumpy in an age of 34. I can’t see myself live like this another 10 years, so now it’s time to tell him. It won’t be easy. I still care a great deal for him, but I’m done. I’ve tried telling him of my troubles. I’ve tried to ask for changes. I’ve tried to communicate. It’s like talking to a door. The next chapter in my life starts now.”

Courtney: So it looks like we’ve got two updates to that original post. The first one says, “Okay, update time. I’d never expected so many comments as I’ve gotten. Thanks a bunch for all the well wishes and whatnot. So, I’ve told him. It was fucking hard to say the least. Pardon my language. I saw the man I’ve been with for 13 years cry for the first time today. My husband never cries. He sounded so heartbroken. I’ve cried nonstop for two hours and used an entire kitchen roll blowing my nose. This is where we are now. I have agreed to couples counseling. He promises to make an effort and alter things. I don’t believe it, but I will grant him this one last chance with therapy. He has made plans, lists, and promises before, but they never carry out. I promised him I’ll do my best to secure him financially if we lose money on the house, since I earn better than him. I promise to help him through this. And that we’ll sort this as friends.”

Courtney: [reading] “I won’t leave him hanging. I feel like shit for hurting him like this, but I’m glad I did. I still expect us to get divorced once we’ve been through couples therapy. I hope it can help him cope with the situation, though.” Oh, actually, here’s a second update. Looks like we’re getting three. [reading] “Another update from me. After a restless night for both of us, we both went to work. My husband seems to have gotten the message for now. We have contacted a marriage counselor. He has bought a book on motivation and procrastination which should help offer him some tools. I have offered him that we pay for a personal trainer, a psychologist, or whatever he might feel could help him. I see it as a good investment if it could help us save the marriage.”

Courtney: [reading] “People ask me if he always were like this. He was always an introvert, a thinker who reacts inwards rather than outwards. He’s gained 40 kilograms over the years. I’ve grown really concerned for his physical health. Although I don’t care about his looks, the weight is adding to his inactivity. He has definitely grown more and more inactive over the years. I’ve tried to drag him to train with me, to get him into activities with me, something we could do together but with no luck. People ask me why I married an asexual. This one is a complicated one. If nothing else was an issue in our relationship, I could cope with this. No relationship is perfect, but naturally, when more things are wrong, it all sums up. As to why I married him despite being asexual, well, I wasn’t looking for hot sex when I met him. I had gone through several things, including rape and violent, abusive ex. I didn’t believe in romantic love.”

Courtney: [reading] “I didn’t believe I’d ever find a - quote - ‘true love’. I didn’t believe I deserve such. He loves me and was a safe choice. I love him as a friend and brother and figured it could work. I still love and care for him in our own platonic way. Naturally, it has been an issue over the years, but we have worked through it.

Courtney: People ask me if he’s depressed. While I surely can understand why you would think so, I don’t think he is. He was diagnosed with depression by a regular doctor once, but stopped the meds after a while as they didn’t do anything for him. He doesn’t believe he’s depressed and won’t get help. He does not feel sad, down, or depressed. No tunnel vision, no ruminating. He’s just an inactive introvert. We both know depression firsthand, so we know what to look for.”

Courtney: Alright, I don’t know yet why this is on BestofRedditorUpdates, because those first two updates were a little bit more of the same. Although the one little thing I’ll draw attention to, just because we’ve mentioned this in other situations, like, especially when we talk about dead bedrooms, when people are focusing on “We’re not having enough sex and that’s the problem,” when that’s clearly not the only problem, it is really interesting that she outright says, “If everything else were good, this wouldn’t be a problem for me, but not everything is good, and therefore it’s just added to the pile of concerns.” So final update: let’s see if it’s worth it. Actually, this one is a two-parter, my goodness. A whole four updates.

Courtney: [reading] “Now, several months later, we have fought through it all together. We went to couples therapy. He saw a doctor and was diagnosed with low testosterone levels, which might explain why he was tired and lacked sexual appetite, amongst other things. We talked through a lot of things. We started paying more attention to one another, both mentally and physically. We agreed after some months that we could make it work, that we did not want a divorce anyway. I feel like I got the man I married back. Then two weeks later, I realized I was pregnant, which wasn’t planned. We decided to keep the child. I’m currently eight weeks in. I’m so happy I told my husband I wanted a divorce. Hopefully I’ll never have to do so again. Edit.”

Courtney: Another update from OP herself. The post was written four years ago. When I was approached by… At the time this update came, the post was written four years previously, and the update is: [reading] “Today we have a three and a half year old daughter and are still happily married. We had a lot to learn about communicating and giving each other space, but also to share the workload, etc. Lots of hard work, but it was/is worth it. I’ve lost around 25 kilograms and volunteered for the home guard in my country. Am now a combat lifesaver. He’s supporting me in my goals and is proud of me. He doesn’t mind caring for our daughter when I need to leave for field exercise or similar. My husband started biking again and does his fair share of duties at home. He has grown a lot more independent and can now easily go grocery shopping without me. I encourage him to take time off to see friends now and then as well, even though we spend a lot of time together as family, of course, with our kid.”

Courtney: [reading] “He’s still overweight and asexual, but as long as I feel like I have an equal, contributing, and active partner in him, I don’t worry about those things too much. I don’t think I’ll ever threaten with divorce again, but at the time it was a lifesaver since it woke him up.” Fascinating. I was almost getting nervous with the little aside of like he was diagnosed with low testosterone, but I am glad that she further clarified even after that diagnosis, he is still asexual, that is an identity and an orientation and who he is, and it wasn’t just a medical problem that he could be diagnosed with in an attempt to fix and then all of a sudden their marriage would be happy. Because nothing about this says that asexuality was the main issue in this relationship.

Royce: Yeah, it was listed in a series of issues. But I was also watching after the first time that was mentioned, like watching for more words, because it seemed like OP there might not have had the best understanding of asexuality. There were a few ways that things were phrased particularly about– particularly around the medical things where I was a little concerned.

Courtney: I mean, honestly, that is a little refreshing. I mean, the asexuality was not attributed to a medical concern. He was not cured. He did not change his mind. It also doesn’t sound like that is a part of him that needs to be, you know, negotiated or compromised. Everything else in terms of, like, being an equal partner, like grocery shopping being one of the specific examples here, though those are things if you do want a partner, you do need to figure those things out. Because we just so rarely get examples of like a mixed orientation, ace and allo relationship where asexuality is brought up as an issue on the side of the allo partner, where several years down the line we have a like, we figured it out and we had a happy ending and everything worked out for us actually.

Royce: Yeah.

Courtney: Okay. I’ll allow it. That was a good update. Gotta say, I was scared around the middle. But I will allow it.

Royce: Okay, I have one here that I’m mostly confused by, so we’re gonna get into it.

Courtney: Oh, fun.

Royce: This was originally posted on r/RelationshipAdvice.

Courtney: Is that a subreddit that we’ve actually searched and done an Asexuality Edition on? Because that might be good.

Royce: That might be a good one.

Courtney: That might be a good future one.

Royce: That’s one subreddit we have not done yet.

Courtney: Mayhap a new subreddit.

Royce: But the original post says, “My girlfriend tells her co-workers that we are cousins.”

Courtney: Oh.

Royce: So OP specifies that both of them– OP is a guy, he and his girlfriend are both 35, they’ve been together for six years, [reading] “She keeps hinting at wanting to get married and talking about what her wedding will be like someday, so I’ve decided to take the hint. I bought an engagement ring a week ago and am planning to pop the question sometime soon. Well, over the weekend she had a work function. This was the first time she’s invited me along. I’m not super outgoing, but I was kind of looking forward to meeting all these co-workers she talks about so much. For some reason, every time we talked to someone, she introduced me as her cousin. I thought it was a joke at first, but she kept at it the whole day.”

Courtney: What?

Royce: [reading] “When we were driving home, I asked her what that was all about, and she said she - quote - ‘Didn’t want people to have the wrong impression.’

Courtney: What…?

Royce: [reading] “When I asked what that meant, she said she didn’t want to talk about it anymore, and I shouldn’t be so upset. Then she switched the conversation to her favorite TV show. Why would she introduce me as her cousin? Should I insist on her telling me why she did that before I propose?” Update.

Courtney: What could this update possibly be? Is the update that they are cousins? And he doesn’t know. [laughs]

Royce: The update was a few hours after the original post. OP says, “There was a lot of good feedback to my question, although some of it was fairly mean.”

Courtney: [laughs] Oh no.

Royce: [reading] “I decided to give her a call and be very blunt with her. I asked her if she was cheating. And she seemed very confused. When I pressed, she got angry and told me that she’s always been faithful to her boyfriend. Now it was my turn to be confused, and I asked who her boyfriend was. Long story short, she’s been dating another guy for the past year. She has been hoping he would propose, hence all the wedding talk. Apparently-”

Courtney: What?

Royce: [reading] “Apparently she’s never thought of me as her boyfriend. I misread that badly.”

Courtney: What?! [laughs] Six years?

Royce: [reading] “She kept alternating between very apologetic saying, ‘I am so sorry if I gave you the wrong impression’.”

Courtney: What!?

Royce: [reading] “And ‘how could you have possibly thought we were together?’ Well, sir, I feel pretty stupid right now, but on the bright side, I’m glad I found out now before proposing.”

Courtney: Oh, no!

Royce: [reading] “Now that would have been awkward.”

Courtney: That would have been really awkward.

Royce: [reading] “I just got done signing up for a new match.com account.”

Courtney: Oh, no.

Royce: [reading] “This evening, I’m going to return the ring I had brought, hoping for a better day tomorrow. TLDR: I thought my long-time girlfriend was acting strange introducing me as her cousin. Turns out I’m an idiot and am not actually her boyfriend.”

Courtney: Oh my god.

Royce: [reading] “Edit for clarification because some of you were asking: no we were not having sex, I’m asexual and don’t really like sex.”

Courtney: Oh this poor guy.

Royce: The person that posted it to BestofRedditorUpdates also includes a comment that they say just adds to their questions about all of this. And OP here says: “We would say ‘love you’, but looking back now, it was more of a friendly thing, kind of like a ‘love you guys’. We would hang out a lot and share a lot of our feelings. We would sometimes– we sometimes would go to a movie together or grab dinner with just the two of us, but oftentimes we did things together as a group. One time that sticks out is she organized a double date. Looking back now, I realize that I was actually supposed to be on a date with the other girl while she was with her boyfriend.”

Courtney: Oh, no.

Royce: [reading] “That explains a lot now, like why the other girl kept brushing up against me and stuff and why she seemed really sulky at the end of the double date. Man, I’m such an idiot.”

Courtney: Wha… I need to know more? [laughs]

Royce: The top comment on this is: “From now on, if I ever do something embarrassing, I’ll be able to remember it could be much, much worse.” Or, one under that, “Every time I’ve misread a social cue is now officially vindicated.”

Courtney: [laughs] I... Okay. I need to know the inciting incident where this guy started internally or externally referring to her as his girlfriend, because clearly it wasn’t a conversation. So clearly he did not actually ask her out. So was it just a series of like, “Yeah, this is how I want my girlfriend to behave, and she’s behaving this way. She must be my girlfriend.” What? I’m so confused. I honestly– I at first I said poor guy because, yeah, that– that is mortifying. There’s no coming back from that. But honestly, I feel really bad for this girl too because imagine you have a friend for six years and a boyfriend for a year, and all of a sudden you realize your friend just fully thought you were in a relationship for six years and was about to propose to you and didn’t realize that.

Courtney: He met her boyfriend! Was there not–? Did she not introduce him as her boyfriend as she talked about her boyfriend? And he was just like, “That’s a weird way to talk about me when I’m right here.” I want a movie about this.

Royce: It must not have come up much because the thing that sparked it was he asked if she was cheating and pressed the issue. And she got angry and said that she has always been faithful to her boyfriend. So it was that phrase that caused him to figure everything out. So I don’t know how it wouldn’t have come up with six years considered– Well, one year. She had been dating this guy for one year. I don’t know if she’d been single the five before. But–

Courtney: They went on a double date and he didn’t know who was dating whom.

Royce: Yeah, but a double date may have been before a relationship had started. Who knows?

Courtney: I want a movie of this where it is, it comes in two parts. One part is one person’s perspective on the last six years, and the other is from the other person’s perspective. I– [sighs]

Royce: I do like some of these comments, though. [reading] “He lived, learned, and has a match.com account now. He’s ready to take on the world.”

Courtney: No.

Royce: There was one person here saying, “I’m bi and my friend sent me roses every other week for two months. We’re married now, but it took me a total of three months to realize we were dating.”

Courtney: [sighs] But see, I don’t like that, because you can send flowers to friends. That’s something I have done, that’s something friends have done for me. How is everyone so bad at communicating that there isn’t a conversation of, like, “We are in a relationship, here are the terms of our relationship”? ’Cause like, okay, even if for some reason he wildly misread a conversation at one point and is like, “We’re in a relationship now,” they never had a conversation of are they exclusive? Like, are they monogamous? What–? Yeah, I’m fascinated. Fascinated. I would love– See, this would be a kind of situation that was a good update. I get why this made it to BestofRedditorUpdates. That was quite something for sure. Didn’t see it coming.

Courtney: But can I get a second update from her perspective? I really desperately want her to chime in. I want both sides of this like you wouldn’t believe.

Courtney: All right, this post was originally from r/relationships, which I guess that’s another one we can try to check out sometime. [reading] “Now, before you assume I’m cheating, I’m not. Please read, thanks. My husband was the type that believed in no sexy before marriage. When we started dating, everything was perfect except this, and I accepted it since I really liked him and soon we fell in love. After marriage, he slowly realized that he’s really not that interested in sex whatsoever, and some therapy helped us realize that he’s asexual. This was a major disappointment for me. Since I was looking forward to having sex with him for a very long time.” Oof.

Courtney: [reading] “I couldn’t leave him for this since I was and still am in love with him. So we worked out a solution that I’ll have a friend with benefits.” It just says FWB and that took longer than I care to admit to figure out what that meant. [resumes reading] “I will have a FWB for my sexual needs and we set proper boundaries. We did this two years ago, and so far our life together has been very good. This has always been something between us, so nobody else knew. Well, out of some freak accident, and me not being as careful as I should have been, mother-in-law figured out what was going on. I said something that raised suspicions, and she dug deep for weeks until she found out. Now she’s threatening me to tell everyone what’s going on. My husband has talked to her, telling her that it’s a mutual decision, and none of her business, but she’s not having it.”

Courtney: [reading] “She demanded that one, I confess my sins in the church, and two, stop doing it, and three, future kids will only be accepted in the family if we provide paternity tests. Otherwise, she will tell everyone. That would be a disaster since we live in a very religious and conservative community. I work for a church and it almost certainly means I’ll lose my job and we will lose most of our friends as well. I don’t want it to happen. We really have no idea how to avoid this situation. TLDR: My husband is asexual and I have a FWB. MIL found out and is threatening to tell people unless we give in to her demands.” There was a commenter who, rather cruelly I would say, says “No, he was in his late 20s when this friends-with-benefit arrangement started. He didn’t slowly realize he was not interested in sex after you married him. This is not a revelation that first occurs to you in your mid-20s. He slowly revealed to you that he wasn’t interested in sex after he had gotten you to marry him.”

Courtney: That’s a thing we see sometimes on the internet, in these Reddit posts, in society where people really do think that any asexual who gets married has deceived and trapped the other party. And that just isn’t always the case. OP actually does refute this and outright defends it saying he always believed that things will change after marriage as he was led to believe. [reading] “After marriage he realized that things weren’t going to change. He didn’t deceive me in any way. I don’t doubt his sincerity for one second. I was right there with him with his struggles to deal with this.” So that is good stuff and that’s another sort of byproduct of purity culture. There are some ace people who did grow up in a sort of community like this, who really do think that they’re just crushing it at the celibacy until marriage thing. That is absolutely a thing that happens. Like, yeah, no sex before marriage? That sounds super easy. That sounds fine. That is easy for me to do. Not gonna put me out at all.

Courtney: But the flip side of that purity culture is once you’re married, sex is this divine thing, and it’s, you know, supposed to be amazing and holy and spiritual because it’s within the bounds of marriage. And there are all these mythologies about it and how wonderful it’s going to be. So, boo the commenter who’s like, mm-mm. Plus also just like, I know people who have come to understand their queer orientation way later in life than their 20s. It happens. Get over it. But that is– that is just good old-fashioned acephobia that sometimes, not even marriage, just being in a relationship with another person, people will be like, “Oh, that’s deceptive, that’s unfair, that’s cruel.”

Courtney: So that note aside, let’s move on to the update, which came 16 days later. [reading] “So she told everyone–” Jesus Christ. Okay. [reading] “She told everyone. That made us explain to people what’s going on, and surprisingly, people weren’t all that bad.” Okay. [reading] “We lost about half of our friends, but others basically said it’s none of their business and they don’t care. We underestimated some of our friends. We decided to cut off mother-in-law and everyone who sided with her. My sister-in-law was the last person who I thought would come on our side, but she did. She called and defended us and told us that she’ll join us in cutting off her mother since this could have easily been her instead of her brother. But I lost my job. Church basically had to let me go since people wanted me gone. So that also happened. I’m now looking for a new job.”

Courtney: [reading] “Mother-in-law also went to my friend-with-benefit’s place to confront him. He shut the door in her face and told her to fuck off.” Wow. What a terrible mother. Honestly, on the asexual side of things, though, this is another rare positive example of what a mixed orientation relationship could look like between an ace and an allo person. You know, some level of non-monogamy isn’t necessarily going to be right for every couple, but a spouse who was with him– Like, I did sort of oof at the, like, “We realized he’s asexual and this was a major disappointment for me.” Like, that, that was a little bit of an oof, that’s hard to hear. It’s sort of one of those things where you want to say, like, yeah, your feelings are valid, I can understand if you’re allo that would be a concern. But also like, that is blunt in a way that is hurtful when, you know, it is an orientation that can’t be changed. It’s not a decision. This is who the person you love is. And this element of this person you love is an enormous disappointment to you. That is harsh and that sucks to hear.

Courtney: But that line aside, she defended him to the shitty commenters and said, “No, I was with him every step of the way. I was helping him come to terms with this. This is real for him. I understand how he thought one thing and then came to understand another based on the culture we live in. And also we found an arrangement that works for us. This friend-with-benefits works. I get what I need. Our relationship is still good together.” And it’s really just this awful, awful mother who’s wrecking things for them or trying to. And why? Just let people live.

Courtney: I’m glad they didn’t lose all of their friends. I’m glad they know who their real friends are now. But like losing a job over this is terrible.

Royce: It is. At least I saw one of OP’s responses. The comment that prompted it mentioned that losing a job is bad, but also getting out of a church community can be difficult and asked if she was still going to the church. And she said, “Oh no, of course not. I’m not even religious.” [Courtney laughs] So at least there was that part.

Courtney: Well, and you know what? I think that’s enough Reddit for today. We started with a terrible mother, and we ended with a terrible mother. That means it is time for our featured MarketplACE vendor. Today we are giving a huge shout out to Urban Cheetah. Now, Urban Cheetah is an apothisexual, demi-homoromantic, transmasc, furry artist with ADHD, depression, anxiety, PTSD, and ASD. Who likes drawing edgy, angry furry boys. Links as always are going to be in the show notes on our website as well as the description box on YouTube. But you can check out his Ko-Fi page where you can commission artwork of your own, icons, full body, half body, headshots, or if you’re feeling generous you can go and leave one of those extremely essential Ko-fi tips. Right now, Cheetah is actually raising money to get a new binder, a worthy cause that I know a lot of you out there understand the importance of. So once again, check out Urban Cheetah for all of your edgy, angry, furry boy needs. And I want to just thank you all so much, again, as always, for being here. And we’ll talk to you next time. Bye bye!